Chad and I met in Cheongpyeong in 2007,. You ended up getting matched and blessed. you're still matched and blessed. And which part, which church are you in right now? Are you religious?
I'm I'm religious. I guess I'm Orthodox to what we grew up in, but I don't really associate with any like specific like group here, there.
I've kind of gone over, you know, the current, like I visit anywhere in the current. Muck. Okay. As
you know, under the realm of the unification church.
Yeah. Like, so what we grew up with, you know, those beliefs, like, um, sort of just basic to that, like divine principle
and stuff. Okay. So this is a trigger warning for people who, sorry, guys can't handle it.
Chad is simply a Moony yes.
Yes. I'll see.
Um, so the reason I have you on here, this people are probably freaking out. They're like, what the hell? What the hell? So me and Chad actually spoke last year in March of, uh, 2021. And we have an Instagram live on my Instagram. And I was talking about, , the mass blessing and marriage ceremony as like a sex trafficking, human trafficking type of situation.
And Chad came on and we talked and although it was a heated discussion, we both agreed on the term. And this was the new phrase that came out last year in March, 2021. But together, we agreed that it was marriage trafficking. So by talking with Chad and having the difficult discussions, we could find new terms for our shared reality.
And I thought that was very valuable. So if you wanna stick around for this conversation, because there will probably be a lot of valuable information coming from this conversation, stick around. If it's something you can't handle, move on. And, uh, with that, Chad, you have the floor.
Yeah. Well, I, I wanna say I remember those conversations we had last year and I remember myself as like a strong faithful guy came into that space.
Very. Invasively, you know, I remember I violated that space for you guys. And like, I had to shout out Renee, because you were probably the most patient to like, not just like, get outta here and like curse me out. And like, you would message me like, look, Chad, you said these things. And like, people are not gonna be able to handle that.
Or this is why you're being insincere. This is why you're not listening. And I was like, okay. So it took me some time and I kind of fell back to realize that, you know, I gotta respect this space and this pain because I've had pain too, but I was just trying to, you know, big my fire. But yeah, I just gotta apologize.
Cause I remember I did that for a while. Like a few months I would invade this space and kind of hurt people, you know? So that's the first thing I gotta
see. Wow. That's very sincere. Thank. I I'm glad you could receive that. That's great. Yeah. uh, yeah, cuz I , I would message you after you said something.
I was like, Chad, I'm gonna block you. get it together, bro. Yeah, exactly. That's so funny. Uh, yeah, so this, uh, first and foremost is a safe place where we honor people that have experienced pain and suffering in the unification church. And yeah, you messaged me last week saying that you wanted to speak on this, this platform.
, what inspired you now?
I mean is, you know, so many things going on and the unification church name is out there and in some ways, you know, very negatively, but , yeah, like that's kind of the reason because there's so much going on and I've spoken to people who are currently part of the, the church and people, you know, outside and like.
Both. Yeah. Like, no, there's no real right and wrong. You know what I'm saying? Both sides are kind of murky and both sides are kind of right. You know, so that's why I just wanted to sort of share. , one thing I feel is as someone who believes like that issue in Japan is definitely because of the unification church.
Like the fact that the unification church, as it exists has no love, you know, and even people I reach out to, okay, we talk about, this is a family church. If this is the son of a mother who gave her whole life, is that not part of your family? So then when I ask like leaders now they're oh, just in Japan or that's just some guy who is resent, but like, if you're really living, what we're talking about is that not a son, you see what I'm saying?
Like, so, boom, he wasn't loved, he had all this hatred and resentment, but it's obvious that, you know, the stuff we're preaching is not being practiced. And that's why. It's actually coming out. You know what I mean? So I, I feel a certain extent, like it is the unification church's fault. So like, I'm not, you know what I mean?
Like, I can't say anything to all these, like people who are angry at the unification church. That's how I feel
. Yeah, no, that's a good point. To, to be clear, I kind of, , wasn't sure if you're talking about Sean Moon and his mom, or if you were talking about, oh my, I was talking about Abe. Oh, okay. Oh, Abe or the guy who killed Abe Tetsuo
who is the guy who killed Abe.
Okay. Tesia
ya. Tetsu sorry. So you were talking about him. Okay. So yeah, he was like a Jacob's child.
Right. But still that's like the mother. So this is the son of someone who's in our church. Mm-hmm like any church community, your family like any regular church community. So what's going on with the unification church where it's.
Oh, he's just some guy.
Oh, okay. So they're not owning him or they're not loving him or supporting him
like any, any religious community Islam. Oh, I see. You know, you see what I'm saying? Like that's a natural thing. So where is that is reflective in my opinion. Oh, wow. Of the coach of the culture of the unification church.
Oh, wow. That's really insightful. Yeah, because we do say love your enemy and your family, especially. So there's no accountability. There's no help there. They're just casting him out, throwing him under the bus. Of course he did murder Shinzo Abe but still, I mean, it's more complex than just cutting him off and I can see how that is an inconsistency with your belief system.
So yeah. That's really confusing.
Yeah. And that's why I think, like, to try to say, oh, it's just one guy. It's just one isolated incident or it's just one thing it's just, it's that's disingenuous, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
So, yeah, cuz we've seen patterns even last year. I, I think you and I were, involved with, um, and I'll put this out there cuz it was in the news with Nick Schad, um, having a kill list of public officials and he was also a rod of iron follower.
, he was, and so it's not an isolated, that was one person it's like, oh these extremists, these people that are acting out reactive violence is what I call it to , chronic pressures that they suffer from. Yeah. Abuse, neglect. I don't know what happened to Nick. I don't know what happened to te yeah, exactly.
But it is real mm-hmm like whatever psychological pressures that push them to go that far. Those are real.
Absolutely. And I think I actually studied psychology in school, , university. So a big part of any like healthy, psychological. Person is a social network, like a healthy network. You know what I'm saying?
I don't know about Tuia in Japan, but I know like for Nick, he had a certain network and I was involved in that, but it like, it wasn't healthy, you know what I'm saying? So it any sort of things that might have been going on in his mind or pressures can quickly get exacerbated. And I think you were even having some back and forth with him, or he was saying some real wild things, like right before, you know what I'm saying?
So you could see he was at like a exacerbation point, but then where's the network to help him and catch him. See what I'm saying? That's what a real community is like. That's what a real church is. It's not a place. We just go and collect members and collect like numbers, you know? Renee don't let me get too riled up.
You know, hear me calm. keep
me calm. Yeah, no. Yeah. Uh, Nick, um, was on the brink of a psychotic break when he messaged me. And I, I tried to understand what he was talking about. He was saying like, people are gonna die. This and that. And I clarified, I was like, what do you mean Nick? And he's like, well, it's the, the mark of the beast.
It's the COVID vaccine. And so I was like, okay, I'm not gonna report this. Cuz he's talking about the COVID vaccine. That's that's the rhetoric. But then like a week later he like, like had like a kill list for the Rothchild and all these other, anyways, he wasn't getting the help. Like I guess he was in QAN on as well.
That was like supporting this type of genocidal
race. Yeah. He was doing a lot of things like, and I, I hung out with him a lot during that time. , but you know, Like, like I said, just the environment for people is so, so like Nick had access to kind of what he wanted, you know what I'm saying? He could go where he wanted, he could do what he wanted.
So he was doing whatever and just brought himself to a weird place. But when there's no real support for you, like, you know what I mean? By support it's like people who can, you can place your heart. So like, that's, for example, I violated the support system last year when I first got involved with the get out movement because you guys are supporting each other in a vulnerable space.
And I came in there and violated that support. Right. So it's like, everyone needs a space where your heart can rest and be heard and be comforted and be, you know, consoled because, so yeah, for Nick, I could see there's nowhere like that. And I think for this person who murdered ABA, it was nowhere like that.
But whose responsibility is it to create that. Isn't it, the community, isn't it, the family. So that's how I see it. It's like, man, how could this kind of culture come out? If people are really, you know, I don't know. It's just, yeah. It hurts me to talk about it. To be honest,
I've got two points about that. So the get out movement is the ex Moony community, is that right?
Correct. Okay. And just wanna wrap up the Nick thing was he was balanced between Q Andon and rod of iron. So that's kind of where he was. So I can see that he didn't have a place where he could just relax. Cuz those are two really demanding organizations. Yeah.
I'm pretty intense.
Like,
yeah. So man, so, so you've been talking with members in Japan.
Well, my wife is Japanese. So through that, you know, she knows people and I'll talk with her.
So that's probably really raw for her to, to see what's going on in Japan.
Yes.
Oh, yes. Yeah. Uh, how has that, how has that been? I mean, it's been a hard couple months for us.
I mean, weeks for us and I'm not. Yeah. So I'm just wondering, how's it been for
you? So actually, you know, I'm gonna visit my, wife's been in Japan since July the end of July and I'm gonna visit her, um, next week. Oh, okay. But, um, she's told me, you know, since then, yeah. Like every day you'll hear things about, uh, unification church, like negative things on the news.
And then a lot of the blogs and things like, you know, ex church members are coming out and speaking against it. And it's just like a lot, a lot, , building, building. Yeah. Like a lot of persecution of anybody associated with the unification church and government, or that's just what I've heard, you know?
, and kind of in Korea, similar situation, Because of, yeah. This sort of incident and people not liking how involved unification church is, I guess, I don't know in detail, but my wife says there's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of like every day nonstop in the news. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, I mean, the ties are undeniable.
It was a organization with a lot of political and social and business goals. And that's what we did. We were like taking over the world for for moon so yeah. So what they're talking about it, I mean, it's real, so yeah. How does that, is there any movement happening? Any change, any accountability?
, I think, I think personally, I, I can take and learn from it, but I've been a little bit frustrated, not silenced, but frustrated in responses I've received in talking with, , other people.
I don't know, just to me, it's not an isolated thing. Like if you really think about the unification church, the Japanese church fueled most of the worldwide movement. Like most people are mixed half Japanese. Like even to this day, most churches around the world, We talk about the unification church, still have Japanese members hanging out and investing like all the money would be like poured into the world through Japan.
So for this to happen to the Japanese church, like for other churches to not consider that we came from there, like we were fueled by them. Oh, that's just going on in Japan. I don't know. I run into these kind of attitudes and it bothers me, but overall about the incident, you know, I have a, different and deeper perspective, you know, I like, yeah.
Cause I heard other things about the shooter that it wasn't just his own influence, but he had some influence as well. So, you know, I do think many things are going on,
but, , would you be able to disclose that in influence or is that something you can't talk about?
So the reason I hesitate is because it's like what I heard from someone.
So it's not like information that I've seen, so this, it would have to be like hearsay. Yeah. This is hearsay that I've heard from those in Japan, but that like. You know, there's people who are, uh, kind of like more communist sympathizing and Abe is a strong anti communist in Japan and people associated with him.
So there's some hearsay that like certain people on blogs and online wanted to nudge this brother towards Abe for the sake of, you know, kind of this there's this battle, right. Of the one type of thinking versus another type of thinking. And if Abe's the leader of a certain type of thinking, that's kind of not what the communist type of thinking likes to get him out of there as like eliminating competition.
Oh my gosh. And now this
is a spicy rumor. So you're saying some communists sent him to kill Ave.
Well, not sent him, but like manipulated his, his hatred. So it's like he wanted to hurt somebody. Oh, let's just nudge him to hurt this person. That's the hearsay that I heard. Okay. And now, yeah. Now when you look at what's happening, like all the people associated with Alba in the, the parliament, or I don't know what you call it are being like isolated and they're having to high, but those are actually all the people who are also strong anti communist in government
political.
Oh, you're saying this is a okay.
Interesting. So there's that like level going on as well is what I heard, you know, so it's like two vehicle, you know, two kind of things being done, but yeah, yeah, yeah. I know in the us, there's also a big battle about which way to think, you know, are you,
are you hearing this rumor from like the news or from actual Moonies
from, from, yeah.
From like my network of people. That's why I'm like, you know? Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, no, that's cool. Uh, I, I don't know if you listen to the podcast.
I I do. I listen to like a few, like, uh, you know, I remember when you first started it and I'm not, I shouldn't be surprised cuz it's Renee, but like you've done so many, so I haven't listened to all of them but I listen when I can, you
know what I mean?
Wow. That's awesome. Thanks Chad. , so in the last episode with, uh, Elgin Strait, the podcast host of falling out, , we talked about communism in a brief, brief like paragraph and I just wanna say like , I'm not a expert on communism, not at all. I haven't read marks or Lennon. , but I'm reading thought reform and the psychology of totalism brainwashing in China mm-hmm and like the same tactics that were used on us in CHMP young is what was used on.
The, , prisoners of war in , communist China mm-hmm so I'm like, so which, which
like the controlled eating or,
man, there's like eight criteria of that reform. There's Milu control, which is like, control of like, when you eat, when you sleep, when you wake up what you sing, what you do, where you go.
Um, and then there's like mystical manipulation and, and it's a whole, it's a whole thing. I, I could read it to you if you want. , but the that's not the main point. I'll probably do it a whole podcast on the eight criteria, just to help if you wanna listen to it later. Um, mm-hmm but essentially what I, what I got from it was that Reverend moon learned about thought reform in the prison camps in North Korea.
And then he implemented the same tactics of thought reform that the Chinese communist used. So in my lens, whatever the unification church is doing. Is the same thought control as communism, but they're anti communism, but, but to me, anti communism in the church now is neutralized. It doesn't mean anything because they're using the same tactics of thought reform.
Interesting. Yeah. So this is gonna bring up a point that I know you and I tended to disagree about before. Okay. Which is the trigger warning. Yeah. Trigger warning, which is about like the motivation and the intention.
Ah, so,
okay. Like, but you know, I think it makes sense. Cause like you could have the same thing.
Right? You could have half a glass of water and I could be like, yo, that is half full. And you could be like, no, that's half empty. That's true. So you could use the same tactic for a different reason. So like the communist tactics it's like to indoctrinate so that we can control. Right. With the chunk young tactics is like to indoctrinate to control seemingly it could be, but you know, is there a different motivation so that like the same tactics could have different roots, but I'm not saying which one, you know, what is the chunk young motivation?
I'm just saying there could be that even it's the same tactics are still differences.
I think the, the unifying end goal though, is totalism like the stripping away of individuality. Mm-hmm and those, I mean, I've heard moon say that himself individualism is just, um, is coming to an end before the era of tunnel book.
You will no longer be individual. And that is in the structure of totalism with him at the top. So in, in those two structures, it doesn't matter what the motivation is. You're still losing your individuality.
Mm. I would say it does matter what the motivation is, but. I wouldn't disagree. You're losing your individuality, but you know, people talk about losing their individuality in like beautiful, beautiful religions, like sophism and other things like lost in the harmony of the essence of all that is, you know what I'm saying?
So I'm one with everything. Like, I don't need to be unique. Like the individuality is described as ego and other things like that. So yeah, like it's true. Totalism and like loss of, but again, the motivation, like if one is harmonizing with this greater being and one is like, we come from nothing, like you need to be controlled by us, you know, it's just like, it's different vibes that come out.
I
don't know. Well, I think that can tie into the current event. Like, , Tetsy Yami was stripped of his individualism and his family was, robbed of all their finances. And then you've got this reactionary, violent event. And, um, yeah, so totalism, I feel like can have detrimental effects on people's psyche and cause them to do great harm.
, and I, I think we have a pattern of that, , with the two events that we just talked about. , yeah. , it's self defense to push back against extreme authority. You wanna protect your, you don't want somebody telling you what to do all the time, what to do with your money, what to do with your, morning thoughts.
And so to regain your individuality, which is a human need, I think Tesia might have done something he shouldn't have, but with the scope of the unification church in Japan, Them infiltrating the LDP and the lawmakers. I feel like he was kind of backed into a corner.
Yeah, I think so too. And I think how I look at it is like, what he did was just the screaming, crying heart of like someone who needs love, you know what I'm saying? Like he acted out in this incredibly violent way so that everyone know that I have absolutely know I have received no love, you know, from my mother, from my, and it's like, if that's, like I was saying earlier, if that's the results of our church, like you gotta face that, you know what I'm saying?
Like, yeah. But you know, Japan too. I don't know the culture. I know it's a little bit more, uh, com uh, yeah, like whole oriented. There could be like extra pressure in Japan too. Like, like you were saying, stripped of individuality with total totalism totalism
totalism
I can't say totalism and then also like the pressure of Japan.
And then he just like screamed out in this act, you know, of pain, but people's heart is screaming out. Like that's how I feel like right now everyone's heart is screaming out, but honestly, Renee, I'm the person who wants to scream out with the heart of love, because I know there's more love. Like, I know love is more powerful.
Like I can see love working in this world, you know what I mean? But if people don't, if people wanna duck and Dodge and not face the real, sorry, this, this is like a rant, but do you know norm McDonald's? No, I don't. Okay. Norm McDonald is a comedian who passed away. He's very funny. And he was always like, he didn't know what was going on.
But I was watching this one show or listening to a radio show from must have been 2000, 1920. And he makes this joke about black people. He's like, I always wanna check the neighborhood where I'm going, because there's a black neighborhood that tends to be poorer and more dangerous. So I might have to bring a knife and everybody on the show was like mad, offended.
But he was just saying, you know, black people are poor than white people and, and everybody started denying it. And then, and he was like, I'm in a room full of racists, man, because his point was, if you can't face the reality that in America, black people are in a poor situation because white people for a long time, didn't give them any money.
You know what I mean? Like opportunity either people are right. There are in a poorer situation. If you can't look at that, we're not gonna heal anything. Like if you can't look at the unification church and see, there is a big, big hole of people not feeling love, then we're never gonna resolve it. If you just look at like, Oh, we still got members.
And so to me, it's like, you know, the PR the principal got no clothes on, man. Like the king is naked and somebody gotta point it out. Yeah. That's great. But you know, I might be causing too much trouble. No, that
that's a powerful, um, metaphor. I appreciate that. Because you have insiders in Japan, um, do you know, have you heard how Tess's mom is reacting to this?
Because you're saying that he's not getting in love any love, is she, do you, have you heard anything?
Since I haven't heard the, I think the most I heard was that like they're holding him cause it's such a controversial thing. Mm-hmm and, um, I'm not sure if they're releasing statements of what he's saying, but yeah, I haven't heard in detail.
I guess my comment was more just before. He must have felt so much pain and no love before he like murdered that
person. Yeah. I'm, I'm really worried about him because I know in Japan, , the, the penalty for assassinating prime minister could potentially be execution. And yeah, so that's, that was one of my biggest motivations to speak on his behalf because I, I would hate for this to end and I, I know, you know, Abe was murdered and that's awful, but I would hate for another person to be murdered and silenced.
You know what I mean? Exactly. Mm-hmm um, so I really hope the unification church starts taking some responsibility for the psychological pressures placed on him, because if he ends up being euthanized or just killed, , it's gonna be the worst outcome. Hmm.
I think so, because it's just like. Yeah, it'll definitely be the worst.
So I'm definitely hoping that doesn't happen. Yeah. But like you, you know, honestly, Renee, your whole podcast and everything you've been doing the last year and a half, two years is like, you know, it's, it's, it's not, you didn't murder anybody, but you're screaming in the same way. You know? Like, look at all these ways we've been abused.
Look at all these, even a marriage trafficking thing. Like, um, I'm involved with the, just some little thing around here in Maryland. Um, you know, to help people get ready for the blessing, but it's like, if you do a workshop, it's gotta have the blessing certificate cuz people, they need that. Uh, Call it approval.
Yeah. Like if I'm not, if I'm not going to this, if I'm not gonna get like the ticket to go to. So they're really just like, yo stay involved. So you can like, do the, like you said, it is essentially trafficking, right? Like we're using this merit, but how difficult is it to find a good partner and to, so it's very tempting.
Like, we'll get you married. We got some good pure people. You know what I'm saying? Not that that's the attitude, but if you're a simple per like, oh, I can get a family if I just join this, you know? So yeah. It makes sense. You could pull people in, you could manipulate that. So, you know, Ah, not that like, I agree entirely, but I can, I can understand the marriage trafficking aspect.
Wow. Because it's like, you're just using that.
Wow. Wow. So that talk last year really impacted you. Um, I will definitely do the eight criteria of thought reform. Cause I feel like, uh, like even the existence of a marriage, a blessing certificate is part of Milu control, which is the control of communication, the control of information, then control of your environment and isolation to put people in a blessing workshop is the, the perfect example of Milu control.
So I think you would benefit from that because then you can, yeah. You can see what's going on and, and it sounds like you could, are you like a, what's your position there? You help out,
um, for this in particular one? Yeah. Just like with dev divine principal points. Sorry. I'm gonna,
you. Yeah, no, that's fine.
Go ahead. Trigger warning. We're talking about
yeah, I'm gonna like, I'm gonna like, so it's interesting because this particular sister wants to give like some more deeper, not just like, Hey, go get married, but some more deeper, like spiritual life, faith, like questions of why we exist and these things that the principal brings out.
She wants to give that in addition to like, you can get married, you know, but it's like actually tough to make this like hybrid kind of thing, you know? And it's sort of like troublesome cuz pretty much the top are just like, yo, get these checklists so you could get the certificate, but she's like, I want them to have something of faith, you know, don't just send them off to get married, but like give their deeper faith.
You know what I mean? And so, yeah. Yeah. It is tough to just see that she's struggling to do that because the culture is such where, you know, Just go off, get married. You're good. You're in, we
made it. Yeah. I think that goes with like the sacred science of the unification church is the divine principle, but like, it can be very racist and homophobic and not like all together with the times.
So I can imagine running a, a workshop and
trying to wait, wait, wait. Like, which part is racist and
homophobic? Oh, well, okay. The racist part, I would assume it's from Koreans being at the top as like the superior race. Everybody has to learn holo Korean, um, Koreans, the kingdom of like where the kingdom of heaven on earth is gonna, China will go.
, so it like creates a superiority complex with racial dynamic. I can see that like, like re remember when Reverend moon was like, oh, there's one black person here. Who's brave enough to marry a black person. but like, he never did that with a Korean or an age. It was like, you're lucky enough to be married
to, well, you gotta, you gotta be careful with Reverend moon's words.
Cuz he also said the black face is the most beautiful human face. Like a dark black face with the smiley white teeth and a pink tongue is the most beautiful human face and white people can't do anything about it. Sorry.
I'm just addressing that.
There was that strange scale. , racial homophobic. Okay. You know the, the homophobic. Yeah.
Yeah. People say like man
woman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One man woman. Mm-hmm so UN under those contexts teaching a, a blessing workshop. I'm sure there. Queer people. I'm sure there's there's other types, you know, there's other, there people exist on a spectrum.
Mm-hmm so teaching at a blessing workshop and having to stick to the strict adherence of the sacred science of the divine principle is really rigid. And you wanna try to evolve with the times . So I can imagine that's very stressful. And what you said is troublesome like to evolve the education might actually be much needed change,
a hundred percent it is needed.
And I'm just like, it's, it's sort of the sad part that it's troublesome. You
know, it shouldn't be troublesome. It should be right. Exactly.
Let's like supported. So like even, uh, you know, like my sister's pretty involved with those things. Right. And she kind of makes some decisions. And so even this one, uh, local person I'm talking to is saying, yeah, Yanna too.
My sister too was like, this might get me in trouble, but we gotta do it because you know what I mean? It's like, it should be supported. It shouldn't be like a troublesome,
troublesome yeah. Troublesome thing. So yeah, you guys are of the age where you're supposed to have more autonomy and,
influence and control for what you're you're teaching, but it doesn't sound like you have much.
Yeah. I mean, I'm not super involved in the, the church stuff. This is just like, sort of, I'm like helping out on the side cuz I happen to stumble into the situation. But um, yeah. Yeah. It seems like it may, you know, I don't know, I'm not too involved with like the actual what's going on at the UC right now.
Wow.
Yeah. , I remember last year you were like. If this is too much information, we'll take it out. Uh, last year I was under the influence that you were in rod of iron ministries.
Ah, it is not too much information. Okay. I think I might be representing them in some vice documentary somewhere.
Oh. But I was actually, I was actually like, never like even, you know, I would go there every month. I was never like fully, I think they never looked me as fully a member or quote unquote sanctuary. Okay. Because certain, certain core things that they really held onto, I was just like, that's not true to me.
You know? So I was kind of like, yeah, I was there and I vibe with all those guys. Like those are all my, my family, you know what I'm saying? But yeah, they also, I was also kind of an outsider.
Can I, can I bring up like a burning question, please do it, do, it was one of those things that you didn't vibe with.
Like the fact that they replaced true mothers,
1000000%, like doesn't even make, doesn't make any sense to me. Like how can you divorce your own parents and then decide your own? This is like, that's just, this is getting a little weird. Like I don't even okay. Just for I'm bring that up.
Yeah. Moon and ho Johan and were married.
Like their entire entire life moon died being married to ho Johan, but then Sean was like, Nope, didn't happen. I'm under divorce. Ho Johan from my, my dad and then conduct a spiritual wedding to someone else. Right. And then he photo Photoshops, like horribly done. Pictures of this random woman over Han his mom's face.
And I'm like, what is this?
So I do, I do wanna say, it's not like she is that, that lady is like an incredible lady. You know what I mean? I don't know if you, uh, but like, so like that lady who they made the new wife is the lady who like, after all the hung I prison and everything, and then writing down, everything was the lady who walked up the hill to find, you know, and then her moon started talking to her and she was like the first one to really, that was her.
That's her right. Wait, I
have to know more. Okay. Tell me, tell me what
okay. Okay. So Reverend moon, he escaped and he went all the way south in the Korean war and he was like homeless. And he wrote this divine principle and he started when he finished writing it. Right. They just like built some hut. Some lady came up and this is like in his, his autobiography.
Some lady came up and then she was, he started talking to her. He was like, oh, you changed your life seven years ago. Right. And she was like, oh, cuz she had become a Christian seven years ago. And then they talked the whole night for three nights. And then she like finally said, yeah, what you're teaching.
Like I believe in that, like that, that feels like a, so that was the first kind of quote unquote disciple that then the unification church came from. So that was her. Like that was that lady who what wow. They decided to, you know, remarri so it wasn't just like some whatever person, but still it's weird, you know, like you don't just divorce your parents.
It doesn't really make sense,
especially when they're already dead. It's like against his will anyway, but yeah. Yeah.
what's her name? Do you know her name? Do you
remember? Her name is K K a N G K Kong. Okay. Kong? Yeah. Mrs. Kong, Mrs. Kong. She passed away. Yeah, she passed away maybe two years
ago. Oh. So they're in heaven together and Han's about to get her gloves on man.
bro. She gotta get her. Get her man back
and the drama kind cook.
Um,
shit. Damn. Okay. So, uh, I love the seven year, um, fortune cookie, uh, sorry. I'm just, I just
gotta yeah. Do
it, do it. Yeah. Yeah. So seven years is like, I've heard this too. And I, I heard it from like my, my pagan aunt. She said that every seven years your cells are completely regenerated. So the chances of you having a new, like outlook on life and being totally different.
In terms of growth is like a hundred, almost a hundred percent. Now that was according to her and she was pagan, but like, I look back seven years. I'm like, yeah, I made, I made a lot of changes, like a lot of changes. Uh, how about you, have you made a lot of changes since seven years?
Like, uh, is it so weird that you asked that, but like unbelievably, like I'm not, I'm not even the same person.
I'm not even the same, like, but it all kind of culminated in the last like month. Yeah. And so the last month would be like the completion of from seven years ago. Yeah. You know what I mean? I just felt like, like some sort of growth in my heart. Wow. That makes
sense. Yeah. Do you wanna build like a hut out of newspaper and start a religion with me?
Renee?
Do Renee, do you really want to hear, like, do you really wanna hear what I'm planning to do? Are you ready? Yes. Say, say, okay, so I'm going to build, uh, EDU. So Reverend moon's taught divine principle, but like, if you look at the communist stuff, he made like a systematic view of God, like. Reality, like based on God exists.
Cause communism is a, and Marxism is a systematic view of reality based on God doesn't exist.
I will AR I, I don't know enough about Marx and Lennon to debate, but in this book, the communist never said anything about people. Not believing it, not being able to believe in God, but I, so it's
more, it's more about the idea of how we came into being.
So it's like, uh, it's called dialectical materialism, but it's basically it's conflict based on material. So we came into being from material and because of conflict and that's like the root of how all things exist. So because that root is like material, there's no real purpose or inner thing. It's kind of like, there's no, God.
So what Reverend mooned was make this viewpoint of like, no, there is a God, and this is how you can look at history based on that. So, Renee, what I am going to do is to look at. Systematically the viewpoint of race based on there is a God, because right now, based on theory of like evolution and things like that, you could look at it like, yeah, it's just random development.
There's no meaning. But if there is a God, which is just a theory, right? But in America, it's like one nation under God. If there is a God and he created everything, why did he create a different color races? Why? And to teach a systematic viewpoint of why God may have do that, have done that. And then I'm going to get specific examples from, you know, the us history because I live in America and I'm going to make it like, you're going to see how this is true, how this view of like race can actually change and you can harmonize and race.
And that was the original intention. And then Renee, by 2023, I'm gonna put that in every school in America. Like I'm gonna get it canonized by the Supreme court. So that's what I'm trying to do.
Can I ask a question? Yes. Do you believe in evolution?
No. Oh, evolution is evolution is false. Okay. We could like, I have, I have such confidence in that.
Like it's not even, it's not even a game. Okay.
So we're not even gonna talk about that thing. Yeah. Yeah.
evolution outta here. Theory. Wrong.
That's gonna a trigger point for
me. Darwin told us there's no evidence. I, sorry. We can move on.
yeah. Let's uh, let's move on. I'm like the fuck, but OK. I'm
telling you, we have to prove it to you, but it's a different topic D
okay.
Different topic. Moving on. I will have to study dialectical materialism, and I have yet to study communism, but I am very excited to, because I feel like we've been fed a lot of stereotypes about it without actually like knowing what is going on. Cuz I've been reading some books and I'm just like, man, there's so many similarities.
And actually China, China was a country that believes that, uh, The aristocrats were given divine power from God to lead back in like thousands of years ago. So it's like China, isn't a godless nation. I, I just don't, I just don't know enough to, to say, but I'm I wanna study it. So that's all I'll say about
that for sure.
Me too. I need to study. I
need to study it. I need to, I need to know cuz I feel like I'm being, um, I think, I feel like I'm a Ponzi. Like I feel like I'm a pawn in a big scheme. Um, and like just this whole anti communist, communist rhetoric, and then finding out that they're like using the same systems of control.
I'm like, oh, what is this? If
you, if you, uh, like afterwards, if you shoot me your address, I can, I can, uh, mail you a book. Cause my mom found this big box of books. That's it's basically just like breaking down. Detail communist view and then like God ism view. But if you wanna study, it's like a good tool, you know what I'm saying?
So do you know what the book is called? It's called the introduction to Kaza worldview.
Oh, that's a church book. I'm not reading that
oh, okay. Well, yeah, I was just, I was just saying, because like, honestly here, I'll read, I'll read a, I'll just read the table of contents from page, from page one, communist expansion in the west Nazim, historical pres precedent, Western naivete, communist expansion, Soviet union's geopolitical objectives, Marxist chapter two, Marxist ideology and overview and critique.
Uh,
yeah. Yeah, but it's, it's already biased. It's already like an overview and critique. Like I just wanna read
that's that's a good point. That's a good point. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, yeah,
yeah. I think I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna bite the bullet and buy the Marx. Book communist manifesto. Yeah. And just, yeah. Do it read it.
Why not? Why not? what, what's all this, what do you think? It's that long? What? What's all this fear about? Like I'm over it.
oh, yes. Yeah, no, but I do think, I do think it's important because then you can start to see, you know, people might have a certain way of thinking. You just never know, but now you can.
Oh, that's where those ideas come from. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, it is a socialist revolution and I do believe that is valid and important because I do feel like, uh, yeah, materialism is it's causing a lot of, yeah. I mean, look, look at te ay, ya Mugabi he was mad cuz all of his money is taken by the church. I'm like, it's not, not valid.
It's like people are pissed off and things aren't balanced and um, and balance is even a fictitious belief. Like we are animals and. We make up justice and maybe it doesn't exist in a world that we're trying to make sense.
Hmm. Well, let me ask you this question, Renee, because I know that you don't associate with unification church anymore, um, but in your own personal life, and you don't have to say detail, but like, do you have some kind of faith or some kind of like with your family, like you guys, you know, belief system you guys have as a family?
I absolutely have a belief system. It's not surrounded around like a sacred science. Um, but it's more like, I love to know that I don't know anything and I never will. but I can interpret it the way, you know, and the best I can, but I think kale woods put it best in our interview that we did, um, with purity culture coming out a few episodes back.
They said, that they have faith in humankind. And that is like, that can be your belief system is having faith in other people. And I thought that was just really profound. I was like, wow. Yeah. Okay. We can, yeah, we can work together. We can use our voice. We don't have to believe in a sacred science or a divine authority to lead us.
Just admit, you know, we're always learning and we're always evolving towards, um, a better place to live in. Um, and I thought that was beautiful and yeah, I do operate like that. I, I would hope that that's something that I operate with as my moral code.
Yeah. I do think that's beautiful. And you're always with the people around you, you know what I'm saying?
Like , so if you're serving the people around you, that's a pretty good way to live. You know what I mean? Like
working together. Yeah. We're not islands. Yeah. People are social creatures. We need each other.
Exactly. Even if we want to be, we can't separate.
Nope. It's really hard to survive outside of society.
So why not make it a faith?
oh yes. I like it. Yeah. No, I definitely think like, you know, joy and the human experience. That's one thing I really like, um, I don't know if you saw that Dave Chappelle was like controversial, whatever special called the closer, but you know, it was controversial cause he was talking all about the transgender thing, but his conclusion was kind of like, you know, whatever you're going through, like whatever your orientation, like you're having a human experience, you know?
And that's what I, I really like that because it's like, we're all human beings. We have this experience and we all, we wanna have like a good experience. You know what I'm saying? We wanna be. Joyful with the things we like, the people we love the people, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah. I always think about how can we bring that to the most people, like, make the best experience for the most people, you know?
Yeah. I think that's important. Um, okay. Let's get back to, I have some questions before. Yeah. Because we're, we're running low on time. Um, okay. So you listen to this podcast, uh, when you listen to it, like, are you like shouting at me? Or like, are you like yeah, that's right. Or like, how does that feel when you listen to an episode?
Um, it feels like, like one sense. It feels like, uh, oh yeah. Kind of Remi like nostalgic cause like, oh yeah. I remember going through that. Oh, I remember doing those things. You know what I mean? So there's this nostalgia and then like, you know, I just have a different interpretation of some things. So it's never like getting really upset, but I think sometimes the biggest thing I'll get upset is maybe like some, like concept of the faith or something you guys might like poke fun at or something.
But it's something that I feel is pretty deep. I'll be like, ah, but you know, I understand. Oh, okay. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I see which, which one in specific so I can like, uh, oh man, lemme see. Have more
respect. No, no, no. It, it, cause that's that's to do with me, like that's to do with my SENSIT. So I might think like, yo ch young is the most precious thing.
So someone, but that that's not me. That's not me. Like I'm, you know, we, we met at chunk, you know,
you know what I mean? It could be different. So you don't have to worry about just, it's just when those topics come up. That's where it's a little sensitive of like, ah, that's something that like, I feel is really deep, but for
them is not, you know, that's all, I'm not gonna change. I still think ch Young's like a thought reform prison kid.
I'm right there. oh, should I tell them how wild you wear
right now? Uh, yeah, sure. I led like an army out and then I got disciplined.
Dameon so you were the leader of like all the girls going to get their tongues pierced? Yeah, they always, girls started coming back with tongue. Like they all got lists for two, three.
I was like, yo what's they started getting tongue Pierce football. I was like, oh man.
Okay. You skipped ahead. Like I had to first sneak out my Bri grade through like I had to find the right bus and lead like 14 kids into soul, two hours. West of Trump young and then navigate like the city and all this other stuff.
Renee's been, she's been leading people out. She's like, yo, let's go
guys. Yeah. With my half. Right? Like my kindergarten talk, like I can speak like a first grader. And I was like, oh,
you know what? It is Renee, you know? And it's like, alright, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna shout your praises. So first of all, whenever you go, whenever you go to like these camp events, like no matter what they say, like the guys are looking at the girls, the girls are looking at the guys, like definitely Renee was like the top of all the guys.
But I remember when we played basketball, I was like, yo, she's just so chill. Like we were just hanging out like, oh, she got four big brothers and things. But at that time, I remember you were also really like, kind of like, nobody could come into your space, like whether or not you really were that faithful or not.
You just wouldn't let people try you. So like, if people tried to, you know, you were just very like strong, but I remember, yeah, just like this. Power of like, you can do it, like whether you're playing basketball, whether you're like going out, leading people. So yeah. Maybe like speaking and things like that, but you have like a power, you know what I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you, I don't know if you would vibe, but this guy he's a church member.
Um, but he does this thing called power animal readings, which is like a based on St. Francis St. Francis a sissy. And so this is kind of like a spiritual thing or whatever, but it's like a spirit animal or a power animal, but I would just, you know, I could share with you the link, if you want, he does a free reading.
You don't have to pay anything. And he'll just what he does is like, you know, the energy reading, you ever do that, where you pull the fingers apart, he'll do, he'll do our energy reading for every letter of your first name and come up with this thing. But actually it was something that for me, I could understand my.
More deeply and it could come my heart, but I would be, I wouldn't be surprised if your power animals like a dragon or like, you know what I mean? Like not even
real, just kidding.
Nos, Realto, dragon, you know,
that's funny. Yeah. I'd be like a gopher, just like digging, connecting
everybody. Yeah.
Making escape routes makes sense.
Underground yeah. Don't don't gophers always have like the hard hats, you know what I mean? The cartoons and stuff.
That's so funny. Uh that's cool, man. Thank you. I, uh, yeah, that's funny. Yeah. I was like, I was like operating from a place of like extreme devotion to the principles, but then like rebellion towards the system.
Mm. I, you know, it was like children's day and we had a weekend off. So I was like, let's get the fuck outta here guys. but let's go be children, you know? Yeah. Let's go like we're in Korea. Like how much money did we spend to get here? Why are we just beating ourselves in the mouth? yeah, but when I, but when I came back, they finally narrowed it down to me and like Danone him gave me a LA oh yeah.
She lashed me. You got a car? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh man. They're like, okay. So these are the girls that have piercings, which one of you speak Korean. And then they're like, it was Renee. Cause we slept in a, we slept in a sauna that night. Cuz I like
Renee. I'm not even gonna lie. Like I think we set you up because me, me Kendra.
And uh, oh, sorry. I shouldn't say his name. It's okay. Kendra white boy and all these guys, like we, we snuck. And we came out and we were telling yo, we could do it all the time. And I think the time you led them, we had been put in the, so you, you just got like way more people than you planned. I remember that.
Yeah. I got like 14. Yeah. You got like 14, you were planning like four or five people. Yeah. And you still let everybody out. I was just like, there's no way you're not gonna get caught. So we kind of set you up because we were telling everybody like, yo, we can get out. And as soon as you had, as soon as you had the idea, like everybody wanted to join you.
So we like lowkey set you up. That's OK. Still you
still let everybody out. I still think it's like one of the best memories ever is like a bunch of second gen blessed children. Like 14. No, I think there was even a 13 year old, like 13 to 18, like roaming the streets of soul. Going buck, wild, getting piercing, eating fried foods after being in like the GU logs of Trump
young.
I mean, honestly, if God is real, I think he was pretty happy watching that. Yeah. And
we got to wear like colored clothes instead of just white clothes. white and black. Oh my God. And we got to take showers. Like we slept to the south house. That was great. Instead of being sour and stinky and choy on. Yeah.
That was like a good core memory. I am very happy with that memory. And you
you're the leader, right? Yeah. It's true. Hard, you know,
Yeah. I, I think I had like maybe two or three other God, brothers and sisters. Uh, and we took like groups of four and was like, what do you wanna do? man. That was fun. You weren't there though.
Were you?
Nah, see, see, we were slick, man. We didn't go that time. Cause we were like, yo that's way too many. These dudes are definitely getting caught. Oh, like there's no way they're not getting caught. You know? So we little,
yeah. Would you go all the way to se or would you just go to like, like the neighboring silver town or so
it's yeah.
Soak is like a close town. So me and Kendra went to sod first and we just chilling and yo we could go to Seoul, so went to Seoul and yeah, we just started doing like what we want, but then when you guys got caught, they like shut it, shut it down. You know what I'm saying? But it's not your fault. It's just
like, damn.
Yeah. It was the one bus out of the, um, hospital. And it would come like at like two o'clock every afternoon. And I think they would like guard the bus after that. Oh, yeah, sure. Nobody left.
There were like any kids or any, like not allowed on the bus,
even though it's like, you're not my parent, like I'm in Korea.
I can do whatever I want.
There's but no, we had a such an interesting time too, because no matter how much we would do wrong, like they would just give us candy. Like Mr. Hun,
who gave you candy? I didn't get no fucking candy. Yo. It was this guy,
Mr. Moon, man, like Kendra would like jump off the thing and do, and we were just, and he'd be like, look, you guys are too crazy.
Have this mint, you
talking about IPO? Are you talking about God? That guy, that guy had it out for me. Shit really? Oh yeah. Mean,
I didn't know. He was mean to
anybody. He was my oh man. IIO had a different side. He was my
go oh, y'all leader leader went back. You had history with
him. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He, he was the, the man of corporal punishment.
He was scary. Yeah. But when he got to jump young, I did notice that he was like, Bizarrely different. He wouldn't do corporal punishment anymore. I didn't engage with him, but I did see him like change personality. It was so crazy.
Yeah. So I only knew him after that and yeah, it was like, it was like really weird.
It was like a forced, like, I wanna beat you. I wanna beat you, but I'm gonna give you this candy. Yeah. It scary,
scary. I was like, OK, I'll take it. Yeah. Well, it was so scary. Uh, I remember he would like punish himself in front of us. Like if we did something bad, he would punish himself. It was really psychologically odd.
Yeah. It's like kind, kinda. Like makes sense.
Like, yeah. Like if, if, if he felt responsible for our group doing something bad, he's like, I'm gonna do 200 pushups. And like, he would just like, go until his like whole body was shaking. He was compulsing. He was like pale. And he would like, and we'd at like 120 20.
We'd be like, God, please stop. Like, please stop. We're sorry. We don't ever do it again.
oh. Um,
because the corporal punishment wasn't working, cuz he, we would do like wall sits and pushups and duck walks in the mud and like all this other crazy stuff. But eventually he started just like turning it inward and like doing it to himself.
And that was really weird for me cuz I was like 15, 14, 13, I don't know. Hmm. But anyways, yeah. Impo is so strange. Impo if you're listening to this, I really hope that you are like in a safe place. You're getting therapy. You are loved. You're a great person that was given a lot of responsibility for a lot of crazy kids and it was just a weird dynamic.
Oh, yes. Yeah. Craziest kids,
poor guy. He, yeah, I feel, I, I really hope he's done. Okay.
I wonder, I actually think I saw him. It had to be seven years ago now, but just like randomly. Wow. Cause there's some, some event or whatever, and I was randomly running around so young. Yeah.
I
said, oh, hi. Oh, wow. He's still general.
Yeah. He looked like exactly the same. Oh my God. He's like, oh, might be in that same desk.
Is he living there? Maybe? I mean, people make whole careers, you know? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. One, one year turns into five turns into 10. Wow.
Okay. Cool.
do you have any other questions? Do
I have a, uh, do you listen to, okay, so you listen to blessed child. Do you listen to like falling out or? Uh, I listen
to falling out a couple times.
It's a little bit more intense, so it's a little harder for me.
Yeah. Yeah. What do you take away from that?
Oh, I guess what I'm saying is like, I can feel more lingering pain when I listen to falling out where, when I listen to you, it's more like hard of like, let's, let's get everybody moving on, moving forward.
You know what I mean? And less, like less, like I'm stuck in all this pain. Of course there's pain. We have there's things there's still, but yeah, with the falling out just feels more like hardened. Like this is what was done and yours is a little bit like things were done, but how can we kind. You know what I'm saying?
Okay. So that's how that makes you feel. Yeah. Very cool. Her story. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. And then, um, let's see. Yeah. What are, what are, uh, what are leaders saying? Oh, two leaders. Listen to us. Is it circulating? Um,
it's a good question. It's definitely circulating like, so like even when I hit you up, my one friend in Korea was saying a lot of the people on the blogs in Korea, like almost all the second gen blogs, listen to your podcasts.
And so what, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the people who can speak English and things. So it's quite big on the overseas. Like, especially since this ABA incident, you know, and they're looking for like second gen who are speaking out. So it's definitely, I think gaining traction on that side.
Wow. Uh, how did they feel about you coming onto this podcast?
Um, I think they're cool. I. Yeah. Like everybody knows me. I'm a pretty chill guy. Okay,
cool. yeah. Uh, I think on my last, uh, episode with Elgin, oh, one of the last closing statements was like, I feel like this Shinzo Abe shooting is something that we can all finally agree on. Like the church dodging accountability for all the harm.
Its cause its members is something we can all like agree on. Um, so, so you coming on and like, do you feel like that's I feel like we can agree on this is that the church has been dodging accountability and there needs to be serious change
100%. I agree. 1000%. I agree. And I think, you know, it's, it's not serving anybody to say there's no, there's no leak when the boat is full of water, you know, it's like, okay.
Yeah, there's a big problem here. Yeah. You know,
but a as your wife is Japanese, I'm wondering, is she asked to give more time or money because she's Japanese.
Um, now I think it's a little bit different and yeah. Even her like kind of like myself in, she's not directly member of the church in Japan, although she, you know, believes in the divine principle and kind of those Orthodox beliefs.
So yeah, I think for her situation personally, they don't have, they're not like asked to donate to that level, but I think, yeah, generally the church in Japan still is, you
know what I mean? Yeah. With the first gen, for sure. I've seen them give you know, everything. Um, have you ever heard of this group called KOD?
Oh, yes. Oh, you have. Okay. Of course. Uh, I am so curious cuz my, my family was made to give $800 a month to Codan mm-hmm every month when I was mm-hmm in the nineties, in the eighties. Um, and I never found out what Codan was,
so I don't know the official like breakdown of Coon, but it's basically like, it's basically like the network of Japanese outside of Japan, so, oh, so you will continue to give a higher level donation outside of Japan.
Like, so all the Japanese families were organized under Codan and it would still donate, you know, two coan, which would fuel certain activities. So it was like actually a vehicle where it was kind of like a specific for a Japanese thing where they would donate and you know, uh, volunteer time and efforts towards different things.
But it wasn't for outside of Japanese, like it was required for Japanese. .
Yeah. Yeah. It was like a super hush hush. Um, I feel like we just uncovered like, like an underground network.
well, I didn't, I didn't even know about it growing up because I wasn't Japanese. Oh,
well, yeah. I wasn't told about it cuz I was cuz my, it was my mom's thing.
Mm-hmm
exactly. So it was more like yeah, the Japanese people know, so.
Wow. Yeah. But thank you. It just shows go ahead. No,
no, you go ahead. I was gonna say, it just shows how much Japan was still, even in other countries they were being asked to do more and more, you know, so Japan was really like the country of the unification church that had to do the most, the backbone.
Yeah, exactly. And, and what, why do you believe that was ?
I mean, I believe it's, it's deeply related to the work that Reverend moon was doing, um, because it's not like. Because Japan had a specific role to play. I'll just leave it at that. Like, so yeah. You know, other countries were all children of God, but in terms of like roles to play, Japan had a specific role.
So they had to go through, you know, specifically more difficult situations. Like that's just the Vegas way I could say it.
Well, we we've already talked about it. It's the sacred science that moon said that Japan was the Eve nation like to restore Eve. So yes, because of that had to be in like a sacrificial serving position, which is beautiful, fake.
Like, I feel like that's a great story for like, you could say that for slavery.
Well, I could, I could break it down just a little bit more like why the theory behind it, whether you were here. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. It's like this. So because. Quote, unquote, the Messiah came to Korea, right? And then the Korean people had to suffer a lot.
And then based on that foundation of the Korean people suffering, the Messiah can understand God's suffering so they can relate in hearts. Now the woman has to relate to the Messiah. So if the woman's gonna be raised from Japan, the Japanese church members, you know, not the whole nation of Japan, but the Japanese church members would have to go through this suffering.
Of course. So from those members, someone could come out who would understand like this deep suffering hearts and be able to relate to the heart of the Messiah and then, you know, unite with that heart. So it's like the purpose is to create this environment where you can have a heart that's able to relate.
So that's, that's like the simple theory.
Okay. I, um, I feel like there's holes in that theory.
Could be, but you know, it was simple, vague. I don't wanna get too.
Yeah. Like if I was the Messiah and I was like, oh, somebody hurt me. And now I know the heart of God. I'd be like, wow, thanks guys.
thanks. It was more like, it's more like, you know, cancer is bad.
I know cancer is bad, but until you've held the hand of someone and looked in their eyes, who's dying from cancer. Like, you know, cancer is bad. What does that mean? You know what I mean? But once you're in that place where you're really looking in their eyes and you're seeing the pain, like when someone says cancer is bad, you feel that in your soul, you know what I'm saying?
So it's like that. It's like, unless you actually have the experience, it's hard to know that.
Okay. But in that same metaphor, I feel like moon is like, okay, moon has cancer. Now he knows the heart of God. Well, now everybody should have cancer. Japan, especially should have lots of cancer.
Mm-hmm . But what if that's true?
no, I mean, it's, I think it's terrible to multiply suffering intentionally.
No, what I mean is what if like. Is not suffering because you're together with God. Have you seen the movie inside out? That's the best metaphor I've ever had? So in the end of inside out about the emotions and the little girl who ran away and was so depressed, came back and she made this new emotion that was like sad and happy because she could share, she realized her parents were also sad, you know?
So in sharing your heart, whether it's sad or good, like you can have joy. So that's where I think it's like, okay, if you can share the heart, there'll be a joy. But if you're O only alone and no one knows your heart, it's, it's so painful. Right? So for this guy who killed Abe, no one understood the pain he was going through.
He was all alone. Like that. That is the opposite of what quote unquote, the unification church promotes. Right. We're supposed to be together, but this brother was all alone. So I don't know, but it seems like the building's on fire. You know what I'm saying? Mm,
okay. Well, let's just, , put a cap on that, cuz that's just too much, um, Too many different sections?
No, it's okay. It's okay. I bet. Uh, let's give everybody a second. cause I'm sure people are like yelling at, at the, uh, the audio right now. Trigger. sorry guys. Sorry guys. I didn't mean to ask the wrong questions. I'm so sorry.
and you can edit it down, you know, keep protect your people. Protect
your no, it's cool.
I think it's cool. Oh, I do have a burning question. Okay. Okay. Sean Moon. Okay. I had red, red flags going off mm-hmm in like before the obvious assassination cuz Sean Moon had landed. And then you saw that viral video of him. Like having people escorted it out like old men, like just picking them up. And did you see that?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was in Japan, which doesn't usually do. And he was doing all this political and social speeches and he was riling people up. So I was immediately worried. I was like, oh, something bad's gonna happen. And then not even a week, like eight days later, this dude gets shot by, by a Moony, like an ex Moony.
I was like, what was Sean Moon doing in Japan? for real Sean. Is that the question? Yeah. Yeah, tell me, what do you think? I
mean, basically since he started his, his sanctuary and Rado iron, you know, it's not just in USA. So there's members in Japan, there's members in Korea.
And there's a lot because there's a lot of people who were really faithful to him from before his, uh, father died and things like that. So I believe that he was going there to cuz he hadn't been out of the USA. Since like 2011 or something. So I believe he was going there to meet those sanctuary members, those Japanese.
So I think those rallies and things were all probably with the members of sanctuary church in Japan, you know what I mean? Like, that's my understanding. He was going to visit them, you know, pray over them and do all the things that he could do with the people he's physically around in the us, but he's never able to go to Japan.
So just to give them that, like that love of, you know, oh, this is the guy who's leading us. We could see him physically, that
kind of thing. Or like the blueprints to make a weapon. I'm just kidding.
Like I'm not privy to those details. I'm just
kidding. He made the weapon way before moon on . Um, okay. And then cookin was there too.
Makes sense. I didn't see, like, I definitely saw some videos of young Jean in there, but I didn't see. Coaching and okay.
Yeah. Were you aware? I probably was. He was, were you aware that he regained control of the Salo weapons company while he was in Japan? I was not. Oh, do you know what that is?
I don't know what Salo weapons
is.
No. Okay. So Salo and I'm, you know, I'm just gonna summarize cause I'm not, I'm not too sure, but I believe it's the mother branch of car arms. Mm-hmm which cookin runs in the United States. Mm-hmm you know
about that? Yeah. I know about car arms. How
do you, how do you feel about them making weapons of mass destruction?
Um, chilling. I feel pretty good. I like, I like to shoot, you know what I'm saying? Like, blah, blah. But I think in the end I'm I'm of the belief that weapons don't kill people, people kill people, you feel me? So like that. And I'm American through and through. So I'm like, yo America. Yeah. You can have a gun.
You can keep a couple, you know what I mean? So yeah, for me, it's no problem. Even your religious, the problem I have is like, the gun is the religious thing. Like that's a little, that's not how I would understand
it. Oh, the rod of iron . Right, right. So that's, so that rubs you world the wrong way.
I was just like, it's just blatantly wrong.
okay. Okay. She's like blatantly external interpretation. It's like blatantly not the true deeper explanation because you're just leaving it as like, this is the power when the real power is the love of God, you know, the fire of God anyway. Yeah, no,
I, I, I can see that. So how do you like you, you respect Sean, you follow Sean utmost.
Uh, I respect him to the utmost, uh, Follow. I don't know what follow
means. Okay. Well, how do you feel about, so obviously you disagree with the rod of iron rhetoric, but how do you feel about him spreading that kind of message to people you care about?
So the message itself is not like inherently bad, but for me personally, I just don't think that it's going to bring the deepest solution.
But you know, what I've seen is that he's really inspired a lot of Christian, like conservative, you know, Trump people, Christian conservative, like gun owners to get together and to like kind of stand strong and you know what I'm saying? So I could see a value in what he's doing in a certain area. For me personally, I don't think it's gonna bring the highest solution to the issues that we have.
So you feel like he's getting a lot of conservative Christian followers.
That is not my feeling. It's just a fact. That is a fact.
That is a fact, like, do you have any specific. Events that they're doing
well. He hosted for three years of route of iron ministries, uh, uh, festival route of iron festival. So he hosted that for three years, which was at the car arms factory in Pennsylvania.
And I was a big, like, you know, oh, wow. Gun carry event. So he did those kind of things. Oh, I didn't um, yeah. You know, different gun shows, you know, with car arms that cook and would do, but in terms of his specific events yeah. Like the rod of iron, and then he'd just have his Sunday service, you know, which so
is it, uh, it's, it's so weird for me to see a business.
Like, oh my God. If, if, if they're in Texas and there's a gun company holding an event, like, I don't care if it's religious, let's go check it out. Like, but do they make it known that it's like, Hey, this is a religious gun company and this is a religious event. Primarily
I don't, uh, well, the route of iron, uh, festival, they do the other ones.
I don't think they would. I think the other ones are actually just gun shows, but you know, like sometimes who wear a bullet crown. So sometimes you RO the bullet crown through the, the gun show. You know what I'm saying? Just so in that sense, they don't hide the association necessarily, but at a gun show, it is usually like you have one booth.
So it's like a hosted event by somebody else, you know?
Interesting. Okay. Uh, I know a couple people that went to one, I think, uh, Steve Mannon is definitely one of 'em. Mm. Yeah. That's about, that's all about all I got.
Yeah. One of those, uh, the festivals you mean?
Yeah. Is isn't he like the, like the like defense guy, department of
defense?
I think so. And I recognize that name. I'm sure he was there.
Okay. So like, are they supplying weapons to the government?
I mean, I think that would be their dream, but I don't know that they are right now, the extent
of that. Okay. Just had to, well, like
that's, that's the biggest contract you could get, you know?
Well, they do have government contracts. I'm sure you know about that.
I, I know a little bit, but I know if you're, you know, supplying the nation, that's the best contract to have. Yeah.
Yeah. But the unification church notoriously does have contracts with multiple governments.
Oh in us or like Korea? Well, I know Korea, I think in
Korea, for sure, with the toil heavy industries in the United States, I think I wanna say Salo supplies, the N Y P E with weapons.
Don't quote me here, but I think that's correct. Um, and then master Marines is like definitely working with the department of defense.
Interesting. I didn't know all that.
Yeah. Well, so it's like, I know it looks like they're just trying to get government contracts, but they're actually successful in it.
Mm-hmm they are doing it through these events. Did they ask you guys to like, come fill in the seats for these events? Like come support our, um,
yeah, well, not fill in the seats, but. Do different things. So when I was going around there, you'd run a booth. You know what I'm saying? Like ax, throwing booth. Oh, that's cool.
Yeah. Things like that.
Okay. Do you get paid? Do you get paid for
that? Oh no, that's volunteer. Oh, you get nice to get like a nice barbecue, you know, like the next week, you know what I'm saying? A barbecue with everybody, for all the volunteers.
How many hours do you
volunteer? It depends, but those events are Saturday, Sunday, so it could be 12 hours.
You know what I mean? Depends they're shifts, so, oh, they
are shifts. Yeah. Do so. I strongly believe that you should be getting paid.
Could be, but like as a community to support the events. I'll volunteer my time. You know what I'm saying?
Which is eventually getting moon's more government contracts, which is effectively lining their pockets with more cash while you are working for free.
I didn't
think, I didn't think that deep. I mean, I was just, I was just putting on the holster and doing the concealed carry fashion show. You know what I'm saying? Like, Hey, oh, didn't see a,
oh, well, Steve Bannon's there. You should definitely getting paid 12
he could
line our pockets. Yeah. I mean, he already is.
You're just, you just don't have any pockets.
Yeah. Yeah. I just got no skin in the game. Yeah. oh my God. Listen out. I'm missing on these silver linings.
Yeah, it's weird. So Sean's your buddy. Um, what kind of car does he drive's he drives a Jeep. Yeah. what kind of Jeep?
I don't know. One. It was super intense.
Like Hummer
Jeeps, offroading Jeeps. Of course he would.
Of course he decked out RO of iron decked out super flat. You go through anywhere. What about cook? Uh, he's got a few things. He likes to drive his truck drives Jeep as well. You know what I'm saying? Like, no,
no sports cars. I totally see him as a sports car
kind of guy.
You know, I think he's been dabbling in the air. Oh, no way.
He's been flying how he has his own private jet or private.
I don't know. I don't know, but I just seen, you know, see the air .
Wow. Okay. So yeah, if he's got his own plane, you know, those are like a hundred thousand dollars. You can definitely be getting paid to run a, uh, a booth.
It's true. You could be getting paid to run a roof. You know what I mean? I mean, I like, I like, I like the staff room that I got, you know, I got to go in the staff room with all the hot dogs and the chips. So that was good enough for me, you know,
the slave quarters. Yeah.
exactly, man. It was, uh, it was slaves with the tacos dude.
You're a girl, man. You got kids don't you I do. I have one daughter.
All right. Request pay.
I got it. I got you. You know, for Renee next time. I'm I'm gonna say you look,
dude, I'm at least, at least we're $12 hour. Jesus Christ.
Next time. I'm make sure. Make sure my
pockets you're worth more. Chad. Thank you.
I appreciate, I appreciate
you definitely worth more.
Um, cool. Well that, that, I think that wraps up all my questions, unless there's anything you wanna say,
um, Nah, man, shout out to the good work. And I think, uh, let's just keep supporting each other. You know what I mean? Like in the end you don't have to agree. This is America , you don't have to agree to like really care about somebody and support them, you know, notice like what do they need and what can I do?
And then when you have some need, hopefully they can help you. And this is America, this is what we do, you know? So
yeah. I like it. I like it. Let's we don't have to be on the same page, cuz that would be called totalism
exactly outta here.
Yeah. I like it. All right, Chad. Well, I appreciate you coming on. Um, if there's yeah, if there's anything people wanna ask you cuz you know, obviously people are listening that are in the church, they're outta the church.
This is gonna be a pretty big episode cuz we've got two different sides of the spectrum talking, which is probably a big step for a lot of people. So, um, if people wanna reach out and ask you questions, is there a place they can do that?
Oh man. Yeah. I mean, like I have Instagram, um, Facebook, uh, I don't know.
What's better, but yeah, Instagram I'm Chad Lee, Michael Johnson. Cool,
cool. And, uh, yeah, so I guess people can reach out to you there and I really, uh, appreciate you respecting the space here. And I hope people saw value in our conversation because I think it's very important to get different perspectives on a platform like this.
Um, just so we can yeah. Come together and share
exactly. And I appreciate you because that power is still shining. You know what I'm saying? The power of Renee, and I think, you know, a lot of people are getting comfort just in being able to be themself. You know, that's what I witnessed last year with. That thing on Instagram I got out is like, people could finally find a space to be like, I was like, oh yeah, Renee created that.
I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised.
a lot of, a lot of us, I think, uh, Jen KBA, Teddy ho and ELs and straight. Yeah.
I'm just, I'm just boasting you up because you're the one that I know the most. Oh yeah, you're right. You're right. It was a
lot of people. It's a lot of people and it, I'm glad that we can finally, you know, take off the, the masks and just have real conversation.
So agree to disagree. I think we, we set an example for a lot of, we can just move on if we don't agree, we don't have
to like, yeah. We could still care about each other,
you know, mm-hmm . Yeah.
And there you have it, a very.
Interesting. Cause that's my favorite word conversation with me and Chad. Um, yeah, I hope you enjoyed it and got a little bit out of it. Seems that we can agree. On one thing about the unification church. And that is that it's corrupt. And there needs to be changed. So you're going to need to take care of your mental health after this episode.
But I hope you can look forward to the fact that I will be dropping an episode on Robert J Lifton's eight criteria of thought reform. In the next, so we'll give you some tools to get out of whatever we just jumped. Into. And remember, I am now on Instagram as blessed child podcasts. You can find me there and messaged me if you like.
Without mind take care of your mental health. And we'll talk again soon.